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A Conversation With Ibeyi, Music's Coolest Sister Act: Women Who Travel x Pitchfork

We caught up with musical duo Ibeyi during Pitchfork festival in Chicago.
IBEYI0582Credit David Uzochukwu
David Uzochukwu

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Music and travel are inextricable from each other. No matter where you go, and what you see while you're there, the sound of a place can create an instant, lasting connection—fado in Portugal, reggaeton in Colombia, or jazz in New Orleans. So when the opportunity came along to team up with Pitchfork for a special live podcast episode with Lisa-Kaindé Diaz and Naomi Diaz, the French-Cuban sister act behind Ibeyi, during Pitchfork Festival a few weeks ago, we couldn't have been more excited.

Hosted by Traveler's Lale Arikoglu and Pitchfork's associate social media manager Vrinda Jagota and recorded at The Hoxton, Chicago, we manage to cover a lot of ground in 30 minutes. We talk about why it's so important for Ibeyi to tour together (six years on the road and counting) and the musical bonds they forge with audiences around the world as they perform their hypnotizing blend of electronica, hip hop, and traditional Yoruba music. We also spend some time discussing their childhood travels to Cuba and the musical influence their late father—a member of Buena Vista Social Club—had on them growing up, the freedom of expression that singing in multiple languages can bring, and what the word "home" means when you're the children of immigrants. "Home is where your heart is, and where beautiful things happen to you," says Lisa. "Home doesn't have to be where you're born. It doesn't even have to be where your citizenship is. Home is really where you feel attached to."

A massive thanks to Lisa and Naomi for taking the time to chat with us just a few hours before their Pitchfork performance. Thanks also to The Hoxton, Chicago, for hosting us and serving a much-needed brunch (on day three of the festival, mimosas were needed), Pitchfork for co-hosting the episode and event, and to all of you who came to listen IRL. And finally, thanks to Charlie Eckhaus for recording and Brett Fuchs for engineering and mixing. Check back every Tuesday for the latest installment of Women Who Travel. To keep up with our podcast each week, subscribe to Women Who Travel on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and if you have a minute to spare, leave a review—we’d love to hear from you.

Read a full transcription of the episode below.

Meredith Carey: Hi, everyone, this is Meredith Carey and you're listening to Women Who Travel, a podcast from Condé Nast Traveler. A few weekends ago, Lale flew out to Chicago to chat with some very special guests ahead of the annual Pitchfork Music Festival, joined by Pitchfork's associate social media editor, Vrinda Jagota, musical duo Ibeyi, and so many of you. We kicked off our fourth live podcast at the Hoxton Chicago. I'll let Lale take it away with the intros.

Lale Arikoglu: I'm Lale Arikoglu. I'm Condé Nast Traveler's senior lifestyle editor and host of the Women Who Travel podcast. I am so excited for this special episode with Pitchfork, especially because we are joined by the musical act Ibeyi. Hi guys.

Currently based out of Paris, Lisa and Naomi hit the music scene in 2015 with their blend of hip hop, electronica and traditional Yoruba and have continued to captivate us with their sound ever since. And with that, I'm going to pass the mic over to Vrinda Jagota, Pitchfork's associate social media editor to start things off.

Vrinda Jagota: Cool. Thank you guys both so much for being here. Thank you all for coming. I wanted to start out by asking you guys about your childhood. Your father is Cuban and your mother is French-Venezuelan. Was travel a big part of your upbringing?

Naomi Diaz: Always. Yeah. And if it's not... even if it was not far, we were traveling from parties to parties, concert to concert, home to home. We were always everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. And we'd go out couch to couch, sleeping on the couch when parties were going on.

Lisa-Kaindé Diaz: That's true. And we grew up between Havana and Paris and I think that is how we created our identity in ourselves. It's through those two cultures. And traveling is a huge part of how we became who we are and how our music became what it is.

LA: And so for those in the audience who might not be that familiar with your upbringing and your background, why were you going to all those parties all the time?

ND: Because at our grandma's, there's always a lot of people, at our mom's, too. And our dad was a really great musician. He was one of the Buena Vista Social Club members and he was touring a lot, playing a lot. So we were always the youngest at shows.

LKD: Yeah, our mother used to do PR for a record label, so she would take us to shows and she would take us to concerts of artists that she loved. And we really grew up being exactly that: the youngest always in the crowd. And also I think our family has a huge important love for music and for enjoying music. They would play music all the time. Our memories of happiness and family are always linked to music or to dancing.

VJ: Your music is such a beautiful fusion of different genres and I wonder if that's also tied to the way your, your kind of identity is tied to different places too.

LKD: Yes. Our music is the mirror of our personalities and of who we are and we never thought of it really. It's funny, when we started creating Ibeyi and we went to the studio, that's when we realized through doing interviews, oh, our music is really mixed. There's a lot of different influences, but it was so natural to us because we are like that, because we are made of what it means to be Cuban or what it means to be French, of what it means to be a woman, a mixed-race woman. We have a white mother and a black dad and so all of that influenced our music and our way to see art and to create.

LA: And you grew up in Paris. What was your sort of connection to Cuba growing up? Did you travel there a lot? How has that evolved over time?

ND: We grew up mostly in Paris, but we were going to Cuba all the time. We still go. It's like home. We have house, family, friends. It's basically home.

LA: Do you think Cuba and your relationship to Cuba has changed over the years as you've gotten older? It was once a place where you went as children to see family and be playful and now you go there as adults. Has that relationship changed and do you think Cuba has changed?

LKD: I think Cuba is changing, but our relationship with Cuba hasn't changed a lot. Yeah, I think it was always home. It was always where our family was—a part of our family was—it was always, you know what we used to do when we had time out of school. We’d go to Cuba. Maybe the only thing that changed is that growing up we’ve realized how much Cuba had influenced us. When you're a teenager you don't really realize that. And then when we started really doing music, we realized how much the Yoruba culture had influenced us and how much it was really a huge part of our music.

VJ: I liked what you mentioned about starting to realize this through interviews, too. Do you feel like the interview process helps you kind of realize things that are maybe innate, that are just part of who you are?

LKD: I think yes. It's funny because it's really crazy. You make an album and you think that's it and then you have to explain what you already explained in an album. And sometimes that can be really-

ND: I don't really like that.

LKD: Sometimes that can be annoying.

LA: So I'm not going to be like, how is making the album?

LKD: Figure it out by yourself! Sometimes that can be really annoying, but also if you ask the right questions, if you really challenge and ask the right question, sometimes it can be eye-opening and really interesting and you can realize things that you didn't get making it because it was unconscious.

VJ: The album becomes kind of this living thing, it's growing. It's changing depending on...

LKD: And that's the wonderful thing about—

ND: Music changes.

LKD: Exactly. That's the wonderful thing about it. We often say our album every night is different. When we play in front of an audience, it changes it. And also what happened that day changes it. Just a simple example: we were playing the day of the terrorist attack in Paris and we got the news five minute before going on stage. And we could see in the audience while we were playing that some people were getting the news, some people got the news and left. It was a festival. Some people got the news and just stayed out of shock. Some people got the news and wanted to just forget about it. It was really surreal, but we knew and every single word we sang was different and had a different meaning. And that's also what is wonderful about music.

VJ: The next thing I was going to ask you is what places feel like home to you? And this kind of seems like it relates, can a stage feel like a home? Can you create these minuscule feelings of home, large scale feelings?

ND: I think we have a lot of homes. The tour bus is one. The stage is another—and our homes. We don't live in the same place, in the same country, actually. But when you travel a lot, you have to make your own bubble. That's why there's a little story. When we go to a hotel, we hate the housekeeper, for example. We don't like when she comes and cleans, or he comes and cleans, everything. We like when it's our own, you know, mess. We always… We hate it. We don't need two towels, let us have our own towels.

LKD: Because it's true because then if you come back to and clean, clean room every night it feels like it's not home. But if you come back to your mess—

ND: It’s like you don't use the same towel every day in your own home. It’s crazy, like, don’t use that much water. Keep it.

LKD: I think we are, we are also really fortunate because we travel in family and that changes everything too. I think I would not do it alone. I would not do it without her.

ND: Hell no.

LKD: I would hate touring without her. And also that makes it 10 times more difficult, too. Because then you're with your family 24 hours, every single day... I think that's why we live in different countries now. It's like we need to breathe, but also that makes it so much more valuable and beautiful and stronger.

And home is where your heart is and where beautiful things happened to you. Home is not where you are born. I mean, it could be, but it doesn't have to be where you born. It doesn't have to even be where your citizenship is. Home is really where you feel like you're attached to. And we could say we went to Benin and we felt at home. We went to Chicago, Atlanta, and we felt like home. We felt a link with the people that were there. And that also is the power of music.

LA: I think a lot to do with that sense of home can also be through language, whether it's through lyrics of a song or through writing or through conversation. And you sing in multiple languages. You speak in English, you speak in French, you speak in Spanish, you sing in Yoruba. Why has that been so important to you? And was that like a conscious decision or did it sort of naturally evolve as you were creating new sounds?

ND: We grew up talking French and Spanish at the same time. My English, I speak English now, but you can ask all my crew for the first album, I couldn't say a word. Lisa had to translate everything I was doing, what I was saying, so it was bad. But now we speak even in English together because it's just part of it. What was the question?

LKD: If it was conscious. It wasn't conscious. It was totally unconscious. Again, it's the reflection of who we are and this is the same. It's really weird. Why did we start writing songs at 14 in English? We didn't speak well in English. Our songs were like in bad English. We had to work on our songs and everything. But why? I think it's just unconscious. Just because through that time, at 14, we discovered Nina Simone and we discovered Ella Fitzgerald and we discovered Amy Winehouse and Adele put out her first record. And suddenly we were like, oh my God, all of this music was in our ears. So that's what came naturally. And because we never thought this would be actually our jobs or an album or that it would travel outside of our rooms. We never thought it. We never thought, it can't be an English, it has to be in French. That is actually… We're really fortunate because we never judged our music when we started. It was all so natural and it was just for us. So there was not this thing of ‘I need to put a record out that is beautiful. I need to go and have the best.’ It was just flowing and I realize now how lucky we are to have had that truly.

LA: Do you find yourself turning to specific languages when you want to express yourself in a certain way? Do they serve different purposes?

LKD: Yeah, they do. And you express different things and it comes out differently. I think probably one of the reasons why we haven't had a song in French yet is because it's so close. And also writing in French is incredibly difficult, but it's also so close to us. We almost would feel empty and perhaps for the first song in French, we would need someone else to write it for us and not... I don't know. I think. I'm not even sure if that's true, but I have a feeling that there's something there. And in Spanish it's just when we want to have a good time. I mean, I know it sounds cliche, but it's true. When we want to make a song that is—

ND: And we want to twerk.

LKD: Sensual. Yeah. And when we want to twerk.

ND: you know what I mean? We love twerking here. Good skills, good skills to have.

LKD: Definitely. And I think English is, it's a wonderful language to write music in because it's so direct. It's so incredibly direct and I love that. And at the same time you can write images and they would mean something really specific to each of you. And I don't know, I absolutely love writing in English.

And singing in Yoruba every night is a privilege for us. And it's something that I couldn't imagine a whole show without a Yoruba song. It's like a prayer. It's truly for us, it's like truly when we would dig to our soul and we feel like our ancestors and our connection to ourselves, to our roots, to our dad, to our land—they're all important.

VJ: That's really interesting. What you're saying about feeling like French might be too close. That relationship with... Does it feel like singing in all these other languages kind of gives you a sense of freedom in terms of your writing process?

LKD: Yeah, I think it does. I truly think it does. I think there's also, obviously if I write in France, French people are going to listen to it and judge it differently. And I think there's also a fear there.

ND: I love working with people. I mean, we don't have any problems saying we work with a crew and we're not the only ones doing everything. I think it's great to share. If we need it, we're going to do it.

LKD: Oh you mean collaborating for French song? Yeah. And I think also the magic of art is collaborating and getting to bounce out of someone's energy and getting to feed yourself out of what they offer. And this is wonderful.

VJ: I wanted to ask you a little bit about your samples, you sample sounds and things from all over the world. You have a Michelle Obama speech, you have a Bulgarian choir, and you have a excerpts from Frida Kahlo's diary. How did you decide on these samples and what do they kind of have in common for you?

LKD: This album was produced in the studio; we produced with Richard Russell. He produced both of our albums. And we had that with him producing and creating together. And he is a genius of the samples because I think he really studied that and it's really something that he loves. And our first album had samples, too. And this one had samples and he was... I don't know, he has this, this sense of what song needs a sample. And he was like, I think these songs need a sample.

For the Bulgarian voices, that was me because I absolutely love them and listen to them almost every day. I'm obsessed with their voices, with the language, with the harmonies. But for "No Man is Big Enough for My Arms," he was like, ‘I think we should have a tiny sample of a woman talking to women, maybe a word’. And we were like, oh my God, what can we find? And Naomi said, ‘Well, did you hear that Michelle Obama speech?’ And I hadn't and Richard knew about it and so we listened to it and from wanting one word, we ended up having a full on ‘featuring Michelle Obama’ on the track. And it was crazy because—

ND: People were like, oh, she might not say yes.

LKD: They were actually saying she will never say yes. You are never going to clear that. You know when your label is like, don't get too attached to that sample.

ND: But thanks to a really good friend of ours, he asked someone who knows really well the Obamas and she said yes and her crew said yes. So we had the sample and we were so happy.

LKD: And it's so the sample says, "The measure of any society is how it treats its women and girls." And it says also, "your story is my story." And it's a piece of her speech after "grab them by the pussy" by Trump. And it felt so important. It felt so important. Actually "No Man is Big Enough for My Arms," that sentence is kind of a sample because I read it in this book called Widow Basquiat. And in this book, Suzanne, who was one of Basquiat's biggest loves writes than when she was seven, a man came back and said to her, ‘One day, I'll come back and I'll marry you.’ And she looked at him and said, ‘No man is big enough for my arms.’ And she said that at seven, at seven. And when I read that my jaw like left my mouth, I don't know how to say that. It dropped.

And I was like, it's incredible that a young girl would say that. And then I was like, it's incredible that a woman would say that. I know loads of women that would never say that. Of course, we say, they were dumped by the boyfriend, he was not good enough anyways, but they don't really believe in it. They say that because they heard but actually saying it and believing in it at every moment was incredible. And we thought, okay, we need to believe in it so we are going to sing it every night. We are going to sing it. "No man is big enough for my arms," and we sing it every night and it's been amazing.

And it's been amazing seeing men singing it and I love that. Every time men are singing in the audience and straight men, I'm like, yes! Sing it with us! It's been really empowering and it's been empowering singing it in front of young girls.

VJ: There's this beautiful sense of expansiveness to it, just no man is big enough for your arms. You're reaching out. I loved what you said about it being a sample of a woman speaking to other women and the sense of community.

ND: And it's not against men.

LKD: No, it just means I am enough. That's what it means.

ND: Because we had some interview where they were saying what problem do you have?

LKD: But they were men saying that, men saying. ‘what's your problem with men?’ We're like, oh, you didn't understand at all what we were saying.

LA: You're like, ‘That's the problem.’

LKD: Exactly. It's about, I'm enough. I'm enough. I'm truly large and strong and I'm enough and I can count on myself. It means that. And I would say just one last thing. What is amazing about that book, Widow Basquiat, is that then after that thing that she says at seven years old, she goes through this love with Basquiat and she forgets about herself. And then realizes that she forgot about herself and she forgot to take care of herself and herself first and nourish herself because she was so in love with that incredible man. But what it tells you is you can believe in it and lose it. It's important to always remind yourself that you are enough and that you worthy. Basically, that's it, you're worthy.

LA: I love what you said about creating those connections with young women and girls especially. And I wanted to ask a little bit about the lullaby you wrote for your niece who lives in Miami, for her to listen to when you can't actually physically be there and you can't travel there. I'd love to know a little bit about how that came about and kind of why that was so important for you in that moment.

ND: We have an elder sister, but she passed away. Valerie is her daughter and she lives in Miami. And for us... We made a song for our sister. We made our song for a dad, who both are in heaven. And we wanted to make a song for her to know that she would never be alone and that she would always have, we would always have her back. It was just that. And she lives in Miami, so we FaceTime, but you know, she's six, so she's like, whatever.

And right now she loves Frozen, but we hope one day she'll be proud and she will be like, "Yes! I have a song.” At school, she’ll be like, “I have a song.”

LKD: It's so cool to have a song. It's funny, we were saying that everybody deserves a song. How wonderful would it be if everybody had a song waiting for them? I dated musicians and I never got a song out of it. Why have I been dating you? Where's my song? Hopefully, she will be really proud, one day.

VJ: It's a really, it's really a beautiful song. It's so good. As a child of immigrants myself, I often think about the limitations of travel and how you can visit, you can visit the places your family's from, but there always feels like this gap of, ‘Oh, how did my parents experience this’ and ‘what was it like 40 years ago for them?’ For me, I feel like I need to kind of supplement the travel with daily practices. When I'm not there, I need to eat the food and speak the language and be around other people from those same places. And I wonder if you have a similar experience or if you have kind of daily things you do that remind you of those homes.

ND: I think for me it is the people.

LKD: If I understand what you mean is what do when you're in, for example, in Paris, when you miss Cuba? You FaceTime your best friend.

ND: I listen to Reggaeton music everyday. I twerk, everyday. I listened to corny songs that I would never listen to if it was in French. I think—

LKD: We sing in Yoruba.

ND: I think it's just dance music and friends and twerking and music. Yeah. I think it's music and dance.

LKD: Yeah. I think it's the same for me. It's the stage again, it's like, it's going back to that thing that reminds you of your favorite place.

VJ: You were talking about how you feel so lucky to be singing in Yoruba every night on stage.

LKD: Yeah. And also what's been wonderful is now that we traveled the world and we've been really on the road for like six years with a tiny gap in between because we needed to make an album. But really we've been traveling non-stop everywhere, and it's wonderful to see how people feel at home with those songs. It kind of hits the center of your soul and everybody—like people that have never heard of Yoruba, don't even place what in means, don't know—they are in a magical trance.

ND: I mean it's religious.

LKD: And they make you travel.

ND: It's like singing of "Ave Maria." They are prayers. Because people think, you know, that we wrote those Yoruba lyrics. No, they're prayers.

LKD: And people feel that and travel with them and we travel with them, too.

VJ: I think you can just really hear your heart in it when you listen to your music and I think that must, that resonates with people even if they don't know what the words mean. It's just really that clear.

LKD: It's crazy. Going to China, for example, we went to China. When was it? Probably a few months ago. And seeing Chinese people react to it. Seeing Japanese people, seeing Australian people, Germans, and of course Latin Americans and Americans, but everywhere, it's everywhere. We played in Russia and people were singing and it's everywhere.

LA: You're traveling the world, playing in all these different countries and exploring the same themes time and time again. And you know, as we've touched on, you talk a lot about womanhood. You'll talk a lot about the diaspora. Given our current times and mentioning Michelle Obama's speech, a few years on, do you feel an urgency to be having those conversations and to be speaking to those crowds?

ND: If you're ready. Yeah. But you don't have to if you don't feel it. That's what we always say. We were ready to talk about it, to talk about in interviews and all that. If you're not ready and if you don't want to talk about it and just make songs for people to dance to, do it.

LKD: I think you definitely need to be ready because you're going to be asked about it. And if you don't know how to verbalize it, then it can go really wrong. You know what I mean? And also now being public faces, if we say something wrong, it's like hide. What comes back at you is really hard so you really need to be prepared for it. But I think there definitely was an urgency.

Our first album was about our family and about celebrating them and the ones that passed away and the ones that are alive and we wanted really... It was so personal and also we had been writing that album from 14 to 18 so it's like a long time. But then we started traveling the world and we started meeting people and hearing people’s stories and realizing in what condition the world was. And we became really sad—at least I did—about the state of the world and the stories we were listening to. And then we realized that by us making an album and talking about it, we felt a little bit better. By us really singing about and sharing that with everybody, it kind of... Singing kinds of makes you feel like a superhero, and kind of gives you back that strength and that power. And that's why we did it—because we needed them. They were, they are, our anthems. First, we needed to sing them and regain that power. And then we realized it was touching other people and it became other people's anthem and that is the best gift a musician could ever have. But definitely there was that. I mean it's crazy. Have you seen the news lately?

LA: Unfortunately, yes.

LKD: It's like, I can't with the "send them back," it's... How dumb, you know what I mean? And also what I realized is how history repeats itself and no one seems to really, I mean we realized, but no one seems to realize it because probably they don't care and they are in their little bubble. But it's important that we don't, it's important that we don't.

VJ: I liked what you were saying about these being your anthems first and a way to remind yourself of how to feel good. And that ties to what you were saying about “No Man Is Big Enough For My Arms,” too. And I just, I really liked the way you said like sometimes you can have this anthem or you can have this feminist idea and sometimes you can lose it and then there are ways to remind yourself again. And I thought that was really beautiful. You can sing this song and it can be like, no, I am enough. I think there's this, like, idea in contemporary feminism that we have to be strong all the time and that a strong woman is always strong, but there's actually a lot of room for vulnerability and a way to find yourself back, find your way back to these, these ideas.

LKD: And it's like saying a man is… If we start thinking like that and then it will be patriarchy again—that a man is always strong and never needs to cry. No, our emotions are important. Our vulnerabilities are what make us good people. And us expressing them and talking about them and sharing is important.

LA: And what an impossible standard to set for yourself if you're going to be strong the entire time. I mean no one can do that but we'll be unhappy. Right?

ND: It would be boring.

LA: Very boring.

LKD: I think what is just beautiful is to feel that spark. It's to feel that moment where you feel like you're on top of the world and you're just pure, like, fire and energy and joy. And I think again, singing makes you feel like that, even if you had a shitty day, the whole way to the stage, when you're on stage and that energy we exchange with people that makes us feel like that.

And actually that's why we make the audience sing every night. Because we want you to feel how we feel. And we make them scream “We are deathless.” We make them, like, scream until they have no voice, until they truly feel it for a second. Because that's the best gift we can give to you is for a second, forget about your day's problems, about your boss that is an asshole, about your family problems, about money problems, and just for a second get into yourself and feel that energy and that fire you have and that strength you have, but also looking everywhere around you and seeing everybody having the same thing and feeling like a unit.

ND: And everybody that's different.

LKD: Yeah, exactly. People that you wouldn't see normally, people that you don't socialize with and seeing that we all like need to experience that.

VJ: Right. And it sounds like you have this similar reaction from the audience regardless of place. You're saying all over the world, this is kind of the-

LKD: We do. And that's why we don't really understand what is happening to the world is because we see how people react. We even... Just take America. We have a really mixed audience in age, in sexual orientation, in color of skin, and in backgrounds. When we are all together in a room singing and being there and just sharing energy, it works. And it doesn't really matter who you have next to you, it’s just that you're together and for a moment you are at peace and you’re all singing the same thing. And I don't understand how it can't work outside. How we can't, you know, communicate or give each other that same energy.

LA: And I think we have time for one last question. Just bouncing off that universality of making that connection with the audience and of music around the world, have there been any places you've traveled to that truly surprised you?

ND: Oh yeah. We love the States: Chicago, Atlanta. St. Louis, Washington, D.C., New York. We love those ones—y'all crazy. And we love craziness. It's amazing. Brazil, Brazil is over the top. Brazil is the best crowd ever. If you feel bad, if you know, sometimes you're, because it's kind of hard. It's not every day that you feel like ‘whoo,’ it's kind of hard sometimes—but when you go there, you know why you're doing what you do. And it's important to have those places and moments where it reminds you what you're doing is good and it's okay and it's great for you and it's great for people.

LKD: And I think the reason why it's so good, those places are so good, is because they take that power. The audiences there take that power. They demand you to give them what they need and that's what we need when you are an artist in front of people. Sometimes I look at them and I'm like, you could be here and I could be watching you. You are more the show than I am. You know what I mean? It's like there's this mirror thing where you really feel like people in the audience have that and demand you to give your all. And that's why the shows are so fantastic.

ND: Because we don't do the whole show. The crowd does it. In some places, people don't really understand that. We give, but when you give back, we give more. And when you give more, we give more. And when you give more, we give more. It's like that. It's that kind of relationship. It's sharing. Sometimes you get to a point where it's like heaven.

LA: I think that is a magical note to end on. Thank you so much for joining us. Everyone, you can find this episode and all our other Women Who Travel episodes on iTunes, Spotify, all the other places that you listen to your podcasts. Where can people find you on the internet?

ND: Everywhere.

LA: As it should be.

ND: Ibeyi. That's the name of our band. It means twins in Yoruba because we're twins.

LA: And Vrinda, where can everyone find you?

VJ: My Twitter handle is just my first and last name, @VrindaJagota.

LA: And you can find me on Instagram at @LaleHannah. Thanks guys.

ND: Thank you.